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Tags: body, flow, function, functionalist, organs, postmodern, postmodernism, structuralism, structure, topology, More…without
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Comment by Alexander Lee on January 30, 2011 at 11:17am @Toby
If I understand you correctly -- it is great to have more tools in our tool box ;).
I would like to add that I'm not so sure that an absolute synthesis can or should be achieved.
I think it was in Logic of Sense when Deleuze points out that philosophers have inevitable blind spots as each philosopher's thought works to patch different critical junctures differently. If this is true, then philosophy is at best a reactive endeavor, something which responds to pre-philosophical semiotic webs that may need justification, explanation, clarification... and I'm not so sure that post-modernism or post-structuralism do a very good job with any of that. It may be that common everyday individual's lives have always been concerned with more material economics than an abstracted meaning of things, but if anything, most political discourse today echos Heidegger's complaint about values from Introduction to Metaphysics. Heidegger complained that when Being rises to an idea, the ought in opposition to Being forces a reactive rising of values to the level of Being so that people argue as to what values we should or should not have -- what kind of Being we Ought to have. Perhaps this debate on values is the extreme relativism you are referring to? Because where we are in conversation right now, seems terribly relativist.
If anything, philosophy as Deleuze put forth should create new ground so that we may recognize our way out of our current impasse our current mal de siecle. I'm not so sure what this ground should look like... or even if Being as put forth by Heidegger is so relevant today, as is the practice of 'totalizing the field', holistic or otherwise.
Of course, there are other 'answers' to this which are not theoretical or philosophically based but it's much harder to articulate them within this context and perhaps much harder to evaluate than a philosopher's text.

Comment by Toby Austin Locke on January 29, 2011 at 5:19pm “the Enlightenment is not something safely tucked away in the past, something obsolete that we can patronise. It is where we still live. Post-modern insights are themselves a recognisable part of it. That movement still sets our current moral scene simply because we have not yet managed to resolve the deep clashes that arise between the various elements that were jammed together in its message” (2009: 222)It is clear, at least I think it is, that each system of thinking must be related to others and all can be of use in a more holistic understanding.
Comment by Alexander Lee on January 29, 2011 at 6:42am Very hard to respond this much later since you all bring up such interesting examples and arguments.
Just my two cents, but I'll try very hard to be brief about my thoughts on this.
I think that if one looks at how thought is applied one can see a distinction between the literalness inherent in structuralism and the meta- of post-modernity on the level of categories and 'substance'. Structuralism at its most theoretical offers a very rigid set of relations (binary or not... this parenthetical is a joke.. ha?). When one gets into the nitty gritty of cultural reality, Structural can easily begin to deteriorate. Post-structuralism also utilizes categorization but allows a freer, more organic set of relations like the 70's language poetry or even e.e. cummings. This is how I find Zizek to be a structuralist even while being post-modern when late Deleuze is post-structuralist without necessarily being post-modern (although one could argue he was a structuralist even as recent as Anti-Oedipus and Logic of Sense).
So Deleuze would be a modernist because modernism (like the many art forms that are in fact modernist) deals with a singularity of expression, a reduction of material relations to a single substance or form -- like citizenship (or the many modes of D&G eg, de/re-territorialization or plateaus or facality or becoming -- certainly not together unified but each being wholly of a singular expression). Post-modernism is, very politically speaking, the inclusion of multiple substances or forms or at least the recognition that any system of thought or speech has an innate inability to incorporate Alterity. (Is there a true 'other' in D&G? Certainly not like there is in Lacan). How this lack of inclusion happens might be like politically correct speech or multiculturalism. For instance, post-modernism can be as absurd as Steven Colbert's concept of 'truthiness' which is more about inclusion and negativity (what his character leaves out, avoids speaking about and disavows the existence of) than it is about what his super-patriotic character is trying to present as the social reality. (I mean, Colbert's show is post-modern. Colbert's character is modern.) In this way, I think we can see much of American political speech as being post-modern even though they attempt 'to pundit' their way into a kind of Modernism. Likewise much post-modern like post-modern discourse, functions by incorporating or recognizing the viability of traditionally unincorporated 'substance' like art made from garbage, or elephant shit, or the feminist art of the 70s that took traditionally feminist forms of craft and placed them into high-art settings in big museums and galleries.
At least, that's how I have found most useful when looking at this topic. While I think it is of questionable value to academically define a theory as being wholly in a particular practice (I am not accusing anyone of this, just making a statement), I do think that citing different modes of application as specific categories can be a good pedagogical tool. We can begin to understand the differences in approach -- 'how' an argument or position functions within a web of meaning without as much risk in being bogged in a 'this vs that' kind of settlement. I guess that makes me post-structuralist, even if it doesn't necessarily include me under post-modern.

Comment by Toby Austin Locke on January 23, 2011 at 11:23pm 
Comment by M Izabel on January 20, 2011 at 7:28am Maybe I should put it this way-- In relation to reality, postmodernism is far from it. That's why it only exists in art, drama, and fiction.
My understanding of Thomas Theorem is that any interpretation of any situation effects an action or a consequence. I believe it is true for all things and situations, real or imagined. Even the belief in fountain of youth that is not real has a real consequence such as the case of a Spanish conquistador who might have explored Florida for the water that would cure his aging. Even if the consequence of his false belief/idea was real, it did not make his belief/idea real. Even telling a lie has a consequence that is true and real. One of the real consequences of postmodernism is the commercialization of scholarship-- where books after books in social science are published even though they are theoretically incoherent, highly imaginative, and far from being empirical/scientific.
Comment by John McCreery on January 20, 2011 at 4:41am Note: Thomas didn't say that situations (or other "things") are real. He said that if people believe they are real, then they are real in their consequences. Was the Gulf of Tonkin incident "real"? Perhaps not. The Vietnam War certainly was. Is a lover's promise real? Again, perhaps not. But if the other believes the promise and acts accordingly, again the consequences are real. Postmodernism and dragons are real in the same way. Both have had real consequences — a flood of possibly wasted verbiage on the one hand, numerous bits of sculpture on Chinese temples on the other.
Personally, I have found reading "pomo" writers productive, but not because I swallow everything they say. They have made me notice things I hadn't paid much attention to when my head was filled with social forces. I think, for example, of the importance of seduction and simulacra in contemporary (but now, I believe) all culture.
Stimulated by Toby's enthusiasm and Heesun's remarks about Deleuze and Whitehead, I discovered on my bookshelves a copy of Deleuze (1993) The Fold. It may or may not contain a plausible metaphysics—I still have to think about that. It is certainly an interesting take on Leibniz and the Baroque, and since I am interested in Leibniz, I might read further.

Comment by M Izabel on January 19, 2011 at 9:40am
Comment by John McCreery on January 19, 2011 at 9:34am "Doable" doesn't mean to me that you or I could or would do it or that there is recipe book somewhere to explain the methodology. Hasn't kept a lot of people from doing stuff that other people have, either pro or con, gotten awfully excited about. As W.I.Thomas said, "If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences." In that sense, it seems not only doable but done as far as I'm concerned.

Comment by M Izabel on January 19, 2011 at 9:12am
Comment by John McCreery on January 19, 2011 at 4:10am
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